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Commons:Categories for discussion/2024/07/Category:Surnames

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Category:Surnames

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There are two flat cats for surnames, viz. Category:Surnames and Category:Surnames (flat list). Surely, there shouldn't be two flat cats for the same topic, should it? Either merge Category:Surnames (flat list) to Category:Surnames or remove the flat cat status of Category:Surnames. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 13:21, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Agree One category is enough, let it indeed be Category:Surnames. JopkeB (talk) 10:37, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@JopkeB:  Comment Although I have proposed two options here, my personal preference is to keep Category:Surnames (flat list) and remove the flat cat status of Category:Surnames. This is because the Category:Surnames category has several subcats for hierarchical categorization and I don't want to clutter this category with individual surnames here. There should be a dedicated category for individual surnames and Category:Surnames (flat list) is the best suit. --Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 11:13, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Then I don't know anymore. What would be the purpose of Category:Surnames and what would be the difference with the flat list? It has now about 2.000 more subcategories than the flat list. JopkeB (talk) 15:11, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's weird.
I'd expect the subcategories of Category:Norwegian-language surnames to be only in the flatlist not in the other. Enhancing999 (talk) 12:20, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with the proposal by @Sbb1413:  Comment I think it makes more sense to keep Category:Surnames (flat list) and remove the flat cat status of Category:Surnames. I like the idea of having a category that lists all surnames while also being able to navigate surnames by origin and other properties. But those two should not be the same category. As it stands Category:Surnames is too cluttered, IMO.
I think the problem could be alleviated somewhat if the {{Wikidata Infobox}} template would automatically add the appropriate categories to a surname category. For example, Category:Shetty (surname) has its current revision (at the time of writing) manually linked to both categories. But its wikidata entry Q7495684 ties it to the Kannada writing system. While I don't see a "Kannada surnames" category or similar yet, having a red link would prompt someone to eventually create a similar category.
Unfotunately, I don't know how involved that process would be. But at least we should be able to use the tools at hand to eventually clean up the Category:Surnames category IMO. --Stux (talk) 13:35, 17 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I've notified for this discussion on the Village pump. - Jmabel ! talk 19:12, 2 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

While I think there is a consensus solution here, so many categories will be affected by this (in terms of their parents) I'm not satisfied with having this few voices and a somewhat stale discussion. Here's what I think is the consensus (in descending order of how confident I am that these are matters of agreement):

  1. There should be a flat category for surnames.
  2. The flat category should be Category:Surnames (flat list); it should contain only categories for individual surnames (and it should contain all of those).
  3. Category:Surnames should be a normal category; it should be diffused appropriately.
  4. Category:Surnames (flat list) should be a subcat of Category:Surnames
  5. Every category for an individual surname belongs both in Category:Surnames (flat list) and somewhere else (possibly more than one place, e.g. see ) below Category:Surnames.
  6. Ideally we diffuse Category:Surnames as much as possible into direct or indirect subcategories such as Category:German surnames, Category:Spanish-language surnames, etc. Categories for individual surnames can go directly in Category:Surnames for lack of a better parent category, but ideally they are to be moved to a more precise subcat.
  7. Category:Surnames may also contain other content related to surnames; it can even directly include files such as the audio file for the pronunciation of a surname for which we lack a category.

Jmabel ! talk 19:29, 2 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

 Agree with all of these points. ReneeWrites (talk) 22:52, 2 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
After you find a solution please check also this category Female names. ”Please do not make major changes” notice has been since 2017 (diff). Maybe bot can add flat list categories or what needed. raid5 17:13, 5 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
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